Monday, November 9, 2015
Week 12: Blog Post Resources
Hello Everyone:
Following are resources for your blog posts for this week as well as for discussion during class on Thursday.
Please note: You need only discuss Ishmael in your blog posts this week. Feel free however to also include relative information from other sources and especially those that help you to articulate themes in and messages from Ishmael in context of holistic sustainability.
Important: Blog posts due Thursday by midnight.
For Blog Post
Ishmael, finish book by Sunday, 22-Nov
For Discussion in Class Thursday: Two Documentaries
“The Magical Forest” http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/magical-forest/
“Nature. Beauty. Gratitude” www.ted.com/talks/louie_schwartzberg_nature_beauty_gratitude
Keep going, you're doing a great job!
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Ishamel pg 263
ReplyDelete“ The message on one side is the one Ishamel displayed on the wall of his den: WITH MAN GONE, WILL THERE BE HOPE FOR GORILLA? The message on the other side reads WITH GORILLA GONE WILL THERE BE HOPE FOR MAN?
I find this quote very powerful. The whole book was a gorilla telling a tale to a man. I think Ishamel represents the world as a whole book. Without man would there be hope for the world? Without this world would there be hope for man? Its really deep, we get so much knowledge from the world and we give so much, could either function without the other.
This is a very powerful quote, I agree. We get so caught up a society in focusing on how “people are destroying the planet,” but is that really the case? Yes, a lot of the help we provide is us trying to fix the mess we created, but there are other things that we provide a very positive light to. There are people on this planet that are able to coexist with earth. I feel as though, however, the earth gives us much more than we give it. So although we do our best to contribute positively, it is not a mutual relationship for the human race as a whole.
DeleteI disagree, I think that while we rely on the planet for virtually everything, the planet would actually benefit more if the whole human race were to go extinct. It is a sad truth but in reality the relationship we have with the Earth is commensal at best and at worst (which is more often) parasitic. It reminds me of a quote that I once read that said grimly: the worst thing to have ever happened to the Earth is the creation of human race.
DeleteThe questions that you ask are very philosophical and can be viewed from many perspectives. Without man, there would be no environmental degradation and other species would flourish. However, the advancements of human civilization would not exist. As a selfish species, the purpose of the majority of our actions is to better our lives in the short-term despite negative externalities for other living things or for future generations. Thus, the only way the world is bettered by man is if we believe that our progress and accomplishments have meaning in the grand scheme of the universe. As someone who questions the “purpose” of our lives on Earth, I have a hard time agreeing that man has a positive influence on our planet.
Delete"I think that's what you're groping for is that people need more than to be scolded, more than tto be made to feel stupid and guilty. They need more than a vision of doom. They need a vision of the world and of themselves that inspires them." Ishmael, 148.
ReplyDeleteWow. This quote is answering all of the questions about how to get people involved in sustainability, in all aspects. If, instead of simply presenting the issues that have arisen in a doomsday type way, we present them in a way that people can fix it, there will be more hope and more drive for people to do so. Do you agree that this can truly help to save the planet? Is there something you would add to this?
So Kyrstin this is totally a wicked way to look at it. We show people what is going to happen if they don’t change, tell them its inevitable, but is it? Showing people a way leads them to follow something. Following something doesn’t inspire everyone but a small group lit matches can catch the woods on fire. It may take time but inspiring a few of all the people with the hope of actions that can cure our terrible print will save the planet. We need to learn that inspiration is more powerful than desperation. People may do anything they can when they’re desperate, peoples work is so much better when they are inspired to do it. Lets inspire the world and the people to fix themselves, to fix their future.
DeleteKyrstin,
DeleteI completely agree that presenting a plan or a course of action is way more effective to entice individuals to participate in sustainable practices rather than presenting doomsday statistics and conjectures. The unknown, the future, and change are the three ingredients for fear within the public, but if presenting the reality of the dire circumstances of our planet along with tangible plans to correct our impact, then it will heavily reduce conflict and denial. I believe that if an individual is to conquer their Fear Master, then planning and having a goal along with an idea of how to achieve it will accelerate the period of time of paralysis and inaction.
Basically we don't need to fight with each other or depress ourselves with all the negative facts but we need Hope. Hope to build a better world, hope to live on as a species, hope that things will change, and hope our children will be better than us in taking on this challenge. So that is exactly what the facets of sustainability strive for, let’s make our water and food better and cleaner, lets thrive for human dignity while we better the economy and commerce in a responsible fashion. Let’s not waste all our time looking back at all the terrible things we have done, but move forward to make tomorrow a better day. Which is a strange message from Ishmael which is depressing as hell but it shows we can always make a difference we just need to be willing and hopeful.
DeleteI looooove this quote. The change we want to see in our world should be rooted in a place of love not fear. This relates to the Fear Mastery we learned about in the Psychology of Sustainability lecture. When people feel afraid and attacked they are less likely to react to anything in a positive way. If instead of criticizing, we expose people to positive experiences with nature the desire to protect it will develop organically. It is important to educate people from a hopeful place that asks what they can give to their earth in return for all it gives to them. This will be much more successful than simply blaming people and highlighting all of their flaws and then expecting them to change.
Delete“By small steps such as these, I soon understood that these sounds in some mysterious way attached directly to the two of us as individuals. You, who have had a name from birth and who probably think that even a pet dog is aware of having a name (which is untrue), cannot imagine what a revolution in perception the acquisition of a name produced in me. It would be no exaggeration to say that I was truly born in that moment— born as a person” (Daniel Quinn, Ishmael, 14.
ReplyDeleteBefore this moment, Ishmael describes a Gorilla’s sense of community as a hand that is “aware” of it fingers, where severed fingers do not constitute a whole hand. Individuality and a sense of importance to the ego directly influence the human dignity of the person discovering their sense of self. The idea of the self and the importance of the individual reminded me of Ayn Rand’s Anthem as she describes a society that has lost the word “I” and consequently a protagonist that rediscovers it. Just as Ishmael discovers his individuality, the protagonist of Rand’s Anthem discovers his sense of self and is completely transformed through the experience. To what extent do you believe that to respect others we must first understand what it is to be an individual?
I love the connection between Rand and Quinn! I think that in order to understand and respect others as individuals, we have to know first what it is to be an individual ourself, or at least have a basic understanding of this. This way we can respect others in the way that we want to be respected. It also helps us understand how to work together for a common goal because we can develop a less ego-centric view of the world, which is what has led to our overconsumption of resources. By understanding that everyone is an individual like us, we can become more conscious consumers by looking for cruelty-free and fair trade products that help ensure a better quality of life for the workers
Delete"'Why should your people know what story they’re enacting as they destroy the world?'
ReplyDelete'So they can stop enacting it. So they can see that they’re not just blundering as they do what they do. So they can see that they’re involved in a megalomaniac fantasy—a fantasy as insane as the Thousand Year Reich.'"
Ishmael, page 128
This stood out to be because it reminds me of a common theme in our class and also on these discussions. One thing we keep talking about is education. Educating people about the problems that we are both facing and causing is maybe the most important step to getting more people involved in the solution. Lots of people know about the facts but don't realize the part they play or how they can recognize and try to counteract our "Taker Culture", and by reaching more people we can hopefully stop enacting this story.
DeleteEmily,
I wholeheartedly agree with your point about education being key in the quest for a more sustainable world. In fact, if one truly considers it, with every speaker in our class we are furthering and expanding the breadth of knowledge about sustainable actions and the relevant environmental problems that we may or may not know we are facing. If human beings do not know that they are destroying the world then they will never have incentive to stop. One might argue that information is broadcasted right and left about issues such as global warming and excess waste. However, I would argue that points such as these are not driven home quite enough. In order to get the public to truly believe in these ideas we must provide concrete facts and get the media and big business on board so that every single source humans may get information from is on the same page.
I'm a firm believer that when it comes to ways of making our society more sustainable, educating people should be the first thing on the list. People need to the be aware of the situation we are in and what they can do and not do to facilitate our transition to a cleaner world. In the news, whenever global warming or climate change is mentioned it seems only to be in regards to the negative consequences or possible catastrophes and rarely do they discuss the solutions. There is no large band-aid that we can use to fix the problems we face, but the one thing we know for sure is that it's going to take a large shift in the public consciousness and how they associate sustainability with everyday life.
Delete“You must change people’s minds. And you can’t just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they’ve lost.” (Ishmael pg. 249)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote particularly important because it ties greatly to things we have frequently discussed in class. In order to maintain human dignity in the quest for a more sustainable world we must make a fundamental change within current-day culture. Rather than simply aiming to change people’s opinions we must alter the way in which they live and are raised. In addition, rather than only presenting information and facts the implications of sustainability on human dignity and the emotional and physical benefits the citizenry will reap must be discussed. Changing people’s minds will prove helpful but changing their habits and lifestyles is far more important. What’s your opinion on this quote/how do you interpret it?
I really liked this quote as well because it reminds us that in order for people to change their ways they must first change their minds. It obviously is not easy changing people's minds if that's what they were taught growing up and have believed for so long. But this has to be achieved on a wide scale cultural level as well. I agree with you that we need to present not only facts of sustainability to people, but the physical and emotional benefits of sustainability as well. People tend to only care if they can see how it will personally benefit themselves.
DeleteNatalie,
DeleteI also really liked this quote because it reminded me of something we discussed in the very first lecture as well as Dr. Wendell Porter’s guest lecture. One fact is not very likely to change one’s set of beliefs, though it does have the possibility to influence them. In the first lecture Dr. Chandler mentioned that every sustainability problem is first a social issue. We are connected to the Earth in multiple ways and rely on it to live yet we rarely acknowledge this. Those who are particularly set on their beliefs even refuse to acknowledge the validity of science that shows how poorly we treat the environment. However, as Dr.Porter mentioned in his guest lecture, we don’t want to just save Earth; we want to save us. If people were to realize that helping the world by acting sustainably will in turn help the rest of society, I believe that we would be much more susceptible to change.
I completely agree with the quote. In order to create really positive, lasting change, we can't just force people into living sustainably. We have to really educate people and show them that this is something we should actually want to do for many reasons and convince them that sustainable living does not leave you feeling deprived. Conserving nature keeps us happy and healthy and can even save us money in many cases. A great way to show people why they should live more sustainably and truly change their mind is to connect this issue with something they are really interested in or really care about. When people emotionally engage with an issue it becomes personal and creates more influential change. This quote definitely relates to what we have learned about human dignity in class. We cannot just show people how horrible the situation is without any hope to offer; we have to show the possible change that can be made and the benefits that are to be gained from changing our ways.We need to educate people about how beneficial it is for everybody and everything to care for the earth and conserve our resources, and explain to them that just as we made the earth this way, we can make the earth a peaceful and healthy place to live, too, if we only act. If we raise children up in a sustainable way as you mentioned, perhaps people will understand the benefits that a good relationship with the natural world has to offer.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI too took notice of this quote and share a very similar view point. If we strive to change the daily habit of people that our not sustainable for our environment then we must have a plan or solution to replace those daily habits in order to get the same results but at a lower cost of hurting our environment. For example if we would like to make an effort to encourage people to stop using plastic water bottles we must make re-usable water bottles cheap, accessible, and consumer-friendly. We can fashion solutions to be more sustainable but they are only effective and applicable if we use them to replace daily unsustainable habits.
DeleteI love and agree wholeheartedly with this quote. It is not enough just to say that our cultural views of the natural world are wrong and must be changed. Rather, it would be productive to illustrate the effects of our current behaviors followed by alternative, more sustainable behaviors and views and the potential effects they can have on our future. I think that one issue we face today in convincing people that our habits are dangerous to our future is that our society has become dependent on immediate results, which is not a bad thing, but when they cannot see the immediate results of their current behaviors, they will be less likely to change those behaviors to ones that are more sustainable.
DeleteI find this quote so important also because it’s a big problem when scientists and scholars try to communicate to the general population. While we might have taken classes, read papers, done experiments to support the notion of industrial practices hindering the sustainability of our future, we scream cold facts which don’t elicit emotions and therefore behavior. As scientists, we must find a common ground of values from which to appeal to the average Joe and therefore, change their minds through sensible emotional arguments. Coupled with education, we’ll be able to change the minds of the older population as well as assuaging the incorporation of new principles into newer systems such as education and industrialization.
Delete"They're going to go on treating the world as if it were a piece of human property and they're going to go on conquering it as if it were an adversary" (Ishmael 249). This quote stood out to me because it illustrates how humans have taken the Earth for granted. The idea that humans have been destroying the very thing that we call home and that supports so much life is crazy. The truth is, the Earth is not our property, we are a property of the Earth. What can we do as sustainability students to stop this mistreatment of the Earth?
ReplyDeleteHello Aylse,
DeleteI also found this quote poignant and I agree with your ideas on the topic. Humans have become incredibly destructive as they encourage themes of greed and instant gratification.They are working against the earth to live as opposed to being one with the earth in order to live. I think that this idea is best represented by the ego-centric and eco-centric models we have seen in class. The human species have developed a sense of superiority, a feeling of having more of right to the resources and the land around them. This kind of mindset has further propelled the destruction and the feeling of superiority human's possess. I think as students the best thing we can do is try to educate those around us. Not in an abrasively and inflated way, but slowly inform our friends and family of the small destruction they are causing to the earth and how they could help change that. Especially as sustainability studies students, it is important that we do not teach with an air of authority or complete understanding because we are all trying to figure out the best ways to help the earth and we must practice sensitivity and patience on topics of such importance.
Alyse, I do agree that humans have been taking this Earth for granted. However, as humans, we have the drive to create new technologies to improve our lives in any way we can. Fortunately, there are millions of people who also want to keep this dream alive, but also have deep considerations for the world around us. I believe that as students, we should follow this example by practicing the various techniques into which we could save energy, water, and land use. This involves using florescent light bulbs, taking colder showers, recycling, etc. We should also teach others around us to do the same, and to be more considerate for our Earth.
DeleteThis quote resonated with me as well. I truly believe that people did not set out to destroy the very planet that we all call home. Greed and a quest to conquer drove actions with very little information behind some crucial decisions. Now that we live in the information age and modern science is so advanced, there is absolutely no reason that we should not be responsible when pertaining to the environment. To do this, I found it incredible helpful to not view human kind as the top of a pyramid but instead as another part of an ecological web where all aspects are interdependent on each other. We are dependent on the Earth and Earth is dependent of us. It is important to recognize and respect this relationship and then educate the future generations in order to create environmental consciousness as the new norm.
DeleteUnfortunately today many people still see the Earth as property rather than the foundation we grow from. Contrary to popular belief, the world does not revolve around humans. To me, the human move to take control of the living Earth is laughable. The planet takes care of us, not we of it. Our haughty moral imperative to guide a wayward Earth, or heal our sick planet, is evidence of our immense capacity for self delusion and confusion. The sad truth is that we need to protect ourselves from ourselves. I think the first step towards halting the mistreatment of our Earth is getting to know our Earth. In todays technology centered world, people can go days, weeks, or even years, without appreciating the awe-inspiring magnificence of our home. Without this deep connection, we loose our motivation for change and resort to empty insincere resolutions. Once the static has been lost and the connection is clear, we will feel like we can see ourselves in the Earth and the Earth in ourselves.
DeleteHumans tend to act selfishly. They are taking the planet for granted and reaping the benefits the earth gives, but giving nothing in return. I agree that is it crazy that we are destroying the place we call home. I think the first thing we can do to stop people from misusing the earth is to educate the people on how to reverse our impact. Education is the first step towards a better future. I think the first step is to educate people on how to do little things around the house that will significantly reduce negative impacts. Most people claim ignorance for harming the earth. If we can teach them about how humans are harming the earth, those people can understand their impacts. The other excuse is laziness and if we can find easy ways to reduce negative impacts, that could also help reduce harm to our planet.
Delete"Nature's beauty is a gift that cultivates appreciation and gratitude" Louie Schwartzberg.
ReplyDeleteThis quote was significant to me through this week's readings because I think it summarizes Schwartzberg's ideas well. Through her career and her vast realizations, she has come to an understanding of the importance of being grateful for the things around us. Nature is something that she values deeply and by becoming more grateful for all of nature, the beautiful landscapes, the versatility of it's function, and it's cyclic habits, one will develop a need to protect it. As a group of people, if we continue sharing this love and appreciation for nature, people will strive to protect it more.
"Until the last three or four decades, the people of your culture had no doubt that things were just going to go on getting better and better forever. There was no conceivable sight in the end." (Pg. 81)
ReplyDeleteI truly believe that this is true of our culture. Since the industrial revolution, people were excited about future technologies. Then we learned that our constant nonrenewable resource use was actually harming the planet in too many ways to count. This realization actually decreased our positivity of future growth. Ho do you think this could be changed?
Sophie, I agree with this statement as well. Unfortunately, we've been using nonrenewable resources widely, reaping the costs of decades of its use. Since then, as you've said, we have become less sure about what the future holds. In the same way we've all learned about the repercussions of using nonrenewable resources, the world can learn about a possible course for the future through appropriate sustainable actions. After this, I believe we would have more hope for the future. Just as the main character learns from Ishmael, we can, and must for a better future, learn from the past and take what we know today to give us hope for the future.
DeleteI found this interesting as well! It made me think of an example an old earth science teacher told the class once, if you place a frog in boiling water it will for sure jump out. However, if you place a frog in room temperature water, and then get it to a boil with the frog still inside, he will remain in the pot until he dies. It was a very bleak example but I think what she was getting at was that we are like the frog, we go on with our day to day lives not noticing the changes until it is too late. I think by promoting all the positive changes that have happened we can reverse the negative dooms day out look. I believe it is important to remain serious but perhaps let people know that it is still possible with everyone contributions.
DeleteIt is interesting that, despite how obvious this fact may seem, some people continue to believe that our growth can only increase, following the same behavior patterns as before, even when all scientific and rational evidence points otherwise. I think that in order to remain positive about our future we need to find a different way to feel progress within our lives without the consumerism and destruction it currently brings. If we looked at growth in terms of how we are growing as connected communities, how the numbers in waste reduction and renewable energy are growing, and how equality and education are growing, then these could be positive ways to reflect upon future growth. Otherwise, there will be an end point for unsustainable growth, and the only question is just how fatal it could be for the entire world.The important thing is to face the issues at hand, not ignore them, and do our best to change the damaging growth to these positive factors. This way we can address sustainability without being as gloomy, as it comes with a mission statement and outlook of growth.
DeleteSophia, I completely agree with this quote and your interpretation of it. I think that we have taken things way too far in our desire for innovation. I think a good way of offsetting our impact would be to use what we already have, modify it and find different purposes so that we don’t have to bring in new materials and contamination into the whole lot we already have. Recycling, Repurposing, Reducing and Reusing are the four R’s which will also help us on finding smart creating ways to work around what is already set and reducing our overall impact. I think it is really important to point out our need for a quick solution to this overwhelming problem, we must be smart and cautions but really fast in finding a new way to innovate and please our desires.
Delete“It will tell you how you have to live if you want to avoid extinction, and that’s the first and most fundamental knowledge anyone needs.” (Daniel Quinn, Ishmael Page. 144)
ReplyDeleteIn our culture, we’ve been disillusioned, believing that our current course for the future is perfect and that it will last forever. When confronted with the truth, we’re reminded of how fragile society is and also the certainty and fear of death. Sustainable practices are the appropriate courses of action, but are unpopular and sometimes rejected. As Ishmael helped piece together, our survival hinges on us changing to more sustainable practices once we learn and acknowledge the faults found in our society. Do you think that Ishmael is right is saying that extinction is a possible future for humans and or other species as a result of us? Can we make a change before something irreversible occurs, or will something drastic have to happen for us to change for good?
I had a similar question myself wondering if we need something drastic to occur, i only hope we don't continue with the world the way it is to find out there is nothing left and no chances or opportunity to change things for survival. Our holistic approach of teaching people that "Every sustainability problem is first a social problem." When we are told that we will be extinct if we don't progress to better life for humans meaning forward life for generations to come is what i think is the most fundamental aspect of human dignity because if we can't survive to procreate then how can we focus on anything else.
DeleteIt's quite scary to think that we humans aren't as strong and powerful as we thought we were, and the thought of extinction because of us is even scarier. I do believe, however, that it wouldn't come as fast as maybe one would think. Slowly but surely, people everyday are adapting to more sustainable ways of living. Although there obviously needs to be a much more drastic change to really change our earth's course, any little bit helps, and I think once people start realizing the good they're accomplishing, it will become more of a ripple effect and hopefully eventually this will become a "norm" in society.
Delete“When we see ourselves in nature in connects us with each other because it is very clear that we are all connected and one.” 1:38 Louie Schwartzberg: Nature. Beauty. Gratitude. Interdependence is the reality that many chose to reject but it is a fact of life, what happens to someone across the global affects us as well as what happens to the water in the Gulf of Mexico, or the rainforests of Brazil, or the Gobi and Sub-Saharan Deserts all effect every other living thing. We are so deeply connected that we become merely members of this massive group of living organisms. Schwartzberg talks about how beautiful nature is and we should protect it, but beauty really doesn’t matter. From the ugliest sloths and maggots to the most beautiful birds and fish, they are all members of this very interconnected web of life and they are just as important as each other. How do we change this mindset of “the world is mine to use as I please” to “I share this world with every living thing maybe I should be more mindful of my actions”
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost Sloths of all natures are beautiful. Second i wholeheartedly agree. Not until recently did man begin to look upon their actions with a critical eye. Till now any and every corner was cut to make more and more profit. It is easy to ignore the huge black puffs coming from your factory when every month your profits are doubling. I think we are here fort a reason and i like to think we are all here with a purpose. I cant imagine that purpose being putting a new animal on the extinct list every month. Every day I wake up breath in the fresh air and look into the cloudless pearl blue sky and think how fortunate I am to live in such a magnificent world. I hope my grand kids will be able to think the same.
Delete“You can’t say, ‘We’re going to change the way people behave toward the world, but we’re not going to change the way they think about the world or the way they think about divine intentions in the world or the way they think about the destiny of man.’ As long as the people of your culture are convinced that the world belongs to them and that their divinely–appointed destiny is to conquer and rule it, then they are of course going to go on acting the way they’ve been acting for the past ten thousand years.”
ReplyDeleteIshmael page 152
It’s definitely an amazing perspective to see from Ishmael, to the majority of society I believe this statement to be true that they are convince the world belongs to them and only them. What they fail to understand is that we all share the world with other creatures and life-forms, so we should learn to work together as a community which means we all relinquish our hold on the world from the controlling the earth around them for the benefit of only themselves. Through teaching other people about what is going on is how we will change the way people behave towards the world, is there any other way to make changes in the world?
“It’s pointless to argue with mythology. Once upon a time, the people of your culture believed that man’s home was the center of the universe. Man was the reason the universe had been created in the first place, so it made sense that his home should be its capital. The followers of Copernicus didn’t argue with this. They didn't point at people and say. ‘You’re wrong’. They pointed at the heavens and said, “Look at what’s actually there.’” (Quinn 83)
ReplyDeleteCould we be living in the same sort of denial or false perception of the world that is like humans from past centuries did? Are there any myths today that could change the course of human history if proven to be false?
“I had to face it: I didn’t just want a teacher-I wanted a teacher for life.” (Quinn, 122)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I feel like this was an essential realization in the narrator’s path to understanding how things work. Having a teacher is important because it is the first step and when learning from someone that you regard with high respect as the narrator does Ishmael, one can feel that they want to be a student forever. I do not agree with this mentality because I believe that for change to occur, at a certain point one needs to abandon the teacher and apply their own life experience with the knowledge they have learned to create an idea/product/method that will expand on what they have learned. After they have applied their idea, they can now be the teacher of others. I feel that this process or cycle is important and exemplified in the college experience.
I can easily see how your point is embodied and explained int the book. Throughout the novel, Ishmael guides the narrator in vital lessons about our society and how it has been perverted by man's sense of entitlement on the planet, over any other species. The narrator wanting a teacher for life symbolizes man's fear of stepping up and creating real change themselves, rather than expecting others will fix all of the problems. Even at the end of the book, the narrator's instincts mirror today's consumer and materialistic culture, when he wants to purchase Ishmael. He does not fully see the worth in his new knowledge that he learned from the gorilla, and instead he becomes dependent on being the student rather than the teacher. This idea of transferring wisdom becomes even more obvious in the book when Ishmael dies. At this point, the narrator must realize that his instructor can no longer lead him, and that he must take matters into his own hands, and spread such important ideas to others so that real change can be possible. Nature cannot rely on man just as man cannot rely on nature. Both bodies must work together in creating and maintaining peaceful existence.
DeleteI found it quite intriguing how you mirrored this quote to Ishmael and how you answered this quote. Ishmael does a splendid job supporting your idea that we need to abandon the teacher eventually, although this abandonment was due to Ishmael's death. However, I do believe that having a teacher, a guide, is essential, because a teacher is able to bring important realizations to an individual about the world and even help guide on how to act upon it. Like in Ishmael, Ishmael was able to set the narrator into a correct or an appropriate set of mind throughout the book. But as you stated, I also do agree that at a certain point one needs to be able to not only follow the teacher’s values and ideas but their own as well. Ultimately, the decision is up to the individual, and I believe that it is important that he or she carries out one’s life following their own passion and values rather than someone else’s.
Delete"This is what we need. Not just stopping things. Not just less of things. People need something positive to work for... thinking of ourselves in a new way, thinking of the world in a new way." (Ishmael, pg. 243-244)
ReplyDeleteAfter explaining how the Takers act like the world belongs to them and the Leavers act as if they belong to the world, Ishmael discusses how the planet won't change if people only assume doom. Progress will not be made if everybody stays negative and thinks that nothing can be done to fix our current state of destruction. We must re-envision ideas about sustainability from being dull and pessimistic to being exciting and hopeful. Change should represent an inspiring transition rather than a negating revision. In order to view sustainability in this way, we must learn from the environment, like the narrator learned from Ishmael. Only if we truly listen to the Earth's needs, can we hope that it will listen to ours.
I think many people are reluctant to change because they are afraid of change of itself. Part of our human nature tends to favor stability and establishment. We are all uncomfortable with the idea of changing and rebuilding our familiar styles to something that is better for the Earth and environment. Yet, I believe refusal to change is just a social construct, as humans are very good at adapting to their environment and modifications. It won't kill us to alter some parts of our lifestyles in order to make our society more suitable for the environment. However, the reluctance to change will be the thing that eventually kills us all.
Delete
DeleteAbby,
I think you make a great point in saying that “progress will not be made if everybody stays negative”, we need to become more open to innovative sustainable practices and begin changing how we live in our daily lives. I agree that in order to do this we need to learn from the environment and I believe that this will come with time and patience. After watching the TED talk it occurred to me that sometimes you simply have to sit and soak in nature in order to truly appreciate its beauty. As protectors of this work we need to slow down our daily routine and set aside time in our day to appreciate our world. This appreciation will soon grow into love and hopefully we can use these emotions to begin saving our world. Instead of continuing to think that the earth is here for our use and enjoyment we need to begin understand that the earth is a sacred gift not to be taken advantage of but instead embraced for its true beauty.
I think that this quote is so insightful and so important, for many different reasons as well. It is easily forgotten that our culture is the product of years and years of cultivation and to just assume that people will be open change in such a short amount of time is, I believe, something being expected of far too quickly. It is extremely important that, in our journey towards developing a sustainable future, education is key and must inspire society in a way that makes sustainability relatable and enjoyable. We need to show people the benefits of sustainable development, as well as the risks that could result without it, and how that relates to everyone, including future generations, on a personal level.
DeleteI believe that when we have something positive to work for we are much more determined and willing to make sure that it gets accomplished. I think that in the context of sustainability, this quote is definitely true because if we begin to take different approaches to sustainability we will be able to accomplish great things. It is so easy for us to continue to pursue the same solutions and methods even once we see that they are not effective because of our tendency to resist changing. As you mentioned, it is important that we don’t look at sustainability from a negative point of view because that will hinder the amount of progress that can be made.
DeleteRepositioning sustainable efforts approach from pessimistic to encouraging is vital for continued progress. Bogging down newly informed people about environmental issues may encourage some to make take a stand, but it will more likely put the nail in the coffin for people’s hope. In particular, combatting local and global problems with plans for exciting solutions will much more effectively expand the sustainable movement. Similar to Ishmael, we must offer this information in forms of inviting interpretation, advocating for personal reflection and opportunities of change. In time, more people will become both informed and conscious of their part in the environment and on Earth.
DeleteWhen thinking about what motivates us to change and improvement, studies have shown, believable and positive goals work the best. That with the added incentive to work for such change. Thus, I would agree with this quote and believe we should apply it to every aspect of outlives to better humanity. No one wants to look at life and see the bad in it but rather the good. In bringing these good changes, we will then have the incentive of living a prosperous, healthy and sustainable life.
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DeleteI totally agree that, idealistically, our culture needs to shift—that we need to start looking at the earth in a different way. People forget that we are interconnected with nature, and very dependent upon the earth, rather than the other way around. However, I think this is very idealistic, especially when considering the current generations. It will be very difficult to change everyone’s mind enough to completely rethink their way of life without some sort of disaster taking place. Of course there are people who think this way, and who are willing to change—like us—but not everyone has our perspective. That of course, does not mean we should stop trying.
“Open your heart to the incredible gifts that civilization gives to us. You flip a switch and there is electric light. You turn a faucet and there is warm water and cold water, and drinkable water. It's a gift that millions and millions in the world will never experience.” (Louie Schwartzberg: Nature. Beauty. Gratitude. 7:53)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really resonated with me because I often find myself going through my daily mundane routine failing to appreciate everything I have. The littlest things I have found myself taking for granted and I realize that this needs to stop. Our society as a whole has begun to take for granted what we have so graciously been given. In order for us to begin appreciating the little things in life I believe we must first take a step back and breathe. My question to you is do you find yourself being so immersed in your life that you find yourself forgetting to take in nature and if so how can you change that?
I absolutely think that in our current society it is very easy to get "caught up" in your life and forget to take in and appreciate nature. It seems that with our capitalistic mentality, we are more motivated to get a high paying job, go to school, and focus on things that will get us "far in life", rather than to sit back and relax. I feel that this becomes even harder the lower your income tends to be. This could be because "enjoying nature" doesn't typically register highly in our hierarchy of needs. I think in order to change this issue there needs to be a higher sense of community in our world. If we were able to have some sort of recognition amongst society that this is an important aspect of life, it may become more commonplace to just take a day off and just go outside.
Delete"The world is a very, very fine place. It wasn’t a mess. It didn’t need to be conquered and ruled by man. In other words, the world doesn’t need to belong to man— but it does need man to belong to it." (Ishmael. pg 243)
ReplyDeleteLife has existed on this Earth for billions of years. An extinction occurs every 25-30 million years. Man has only arrived here for a mere few tens of thousands of years, and modern technology only started developing nearly 250 years ago. In that perspective, modern man has treated the Earth like a playground. Us as a species has wiped out many, many different species of animals just like an extinction event itself. It's true that we are really the fittest in the race for survival, but that implies that the Earth controls every organism's survival. Comically, it's the other way around, in which man decided which species lives or dies. Exploitation of Earth's resources has made Earth be subjugated to us, where in a sustainable circumstance, Earth should be the subjugator.
“It’s a system that worked magnificently for billions of years. Filmmakers understandable love footage of gore and battle, but a naturalist will tell you that the species are not in any sense at war with one another” (Ishmael 117).
ReplyDeleteTo have the wrong perception of the natural world steers society away from understanding the true beauty and complexity of it. Nature has developed a wild and savage name for itself for many people and, as a result, its wisdom and perfection has been undermined, creating a large relational gap between “civilized” society and the natural world. It is interesting to consider that this mentality is one that removes people from their tie and, thus, responsibility to the natural world. As pointed out by Ishmael, we tend to forget about this “magnificent” system we are surrounded by daily. Sustainable development begins by understanding that the foundation for everything is at the heart of understanding and preserving nature's amazing dynamics.
"Hunter-gatherers no more live on the knife-edge of survival than wolves or lions or sparrows or rabbits. Man was as well adapted to life on this planet as any other species, and the idea that he lived on the knife-edge of survival is simply biological nonsense." (Ishamel, Pg. 220)
ReplyDeleteI think this quotes relates a lot to other things I have learned throughout the course. Humans often experience a feeling of human exceptionalism, meaning they feel distinct and separate from other animals and organisms. However, as we know, we are part of a much larger ecosystem. The way we think of hunter-gatherers and cavemen as constantly at risk and fighting for survival when out in nature contributes to our scarcity-based mindset and distances us further from making a deep connection to nature. Why is fearing for our survival in the natural world a problem or how does it influence our behaviors and actions?
“Just think. In a billion years, whatever is around then, whoever is around then, says, “Man? Oh yes, man! What a wonderful creature he was! It was within his grasp to destroy the entire world and to trample all our futures into the dust-- but he saw the light before it was too late and pulled back. He pulled back and gave the rest of us our chance. He showed us all how it had to be done if the world was to go on being a garden forever. Man was the role model for us all!””
ReplyDeleteI like this quote because it presents a hopeful stance on what our legacy as a human race can be. In order to create the big picture we must first change our individual lives and the small role we play in perpetuating large problems.
We frequently talk about the importance of individual action in creating lasting change. What do you want to be remembered for?
This quote perplexes me. How can man fathom a billion years? It makes no sense to my brain to understand what a billion year is. Yes, this quote presents "a hopeful stance on what our legacy as a human race can be," but evidence of progress to "[see] the light" in this time horizon is pointless. Other challenges await this planet within a billion years. I think "in order to create the big picture" this planet must understand that creating a resilient community with ever evolving best management (currently sustainability) is just the problem of today and the near future. Greater challenges of freedom, ethics, morality, and power await in the future as man evolves, technology grants powers of the gods, and man begins to feel ever advance.
Delete“There was a telephone there on an end table, connecting me to a whole world of life and activity, but who could I call?” (Quinn, Ishmael. Pg. 262.)
ReplyDeleteI find this quote quite metaphorically ambiguous. It goes beyond specifically whom the narrator will call to tell that Ishmael died. More specifically, the narrator has gained much knowledge and wisdom from the gorilla. Now that Ishmael communicated much of the information, the narrator must choose whom he will now teach. Similar to class discussions of the future relying on today’s decisions, both the narrator and us are granted the responsibility to spread awareness and knowledge of sustainability in all facets to make for a better world.
Ted Talk- Louie Schwartzberg- "Nature's beauty is a gift that cultivates appreciation and gratitude."
ReplyDeleteWhich of the following is more important to sustainability, appreciating nature or building community?
I think sustainability is grounded in the combination of those two things. The dominant discourse says it has to be one of the two, we can have progress or a healthy environment but not both, and that's exactly the problem. One of the major answers that sustainability gives is creating and building communities around appreciation of a place. Many stress connection to the earth and a local space as the way to build communities. I also think that's what Schwartzberg is talking about with quote that you have. People come together around nature, and communities built around appreciation of nature are healthier and more sustainable.
DeleteI think that the goal of sustainability come from a combination of the two ideas. Communities can and should be built with the natural environment of the land in mind. A community that is being constructed should not just be built with disregard for everything around it, but should incorporate the nature and natural presence of its surroundings. Additionally, appreciating nature could be viewed in many different ways. From simply walking around a natural environment to building communities that are made to help and keep the nature and have the community show the natural presence that it once had. The communities that are built around nature are the ones that are the most sustainable and give the residents of the communities the greatest chances of developing properly and well.
Delete"...your species is not exempt from the biological realities that govern all other species." (Ishamel, 138)
ReplyDeleteIshmael offers an interesting perspective in regards to how humans live in conflict with the world. It helps explain why we experience famine, yet have enough food to feed everyone, and makes me question whether we should tampering with the natural laws of the world. How do you view the reality of the relation between famine and population growth? What do you think we should be doing to combat it? If anything at all.
“The world is a very, very fine place. It wasn’t a mess. It didn’t need to be conquered and ruled by man. In other words, the world doesn’t need to belong to man— but it does need man to belong to it.” Ishmael page 243.
ReplyDeleteContrary to popular belief, humans are not the center of life. Nor is any other single species. To me, the human move to take conquer the living Earth is laughable. The planet takes care of us, not we of it. Our self-inflated moral imperative to guide a wayward Earth, or heal our sick planet, is evidence of our immense capacity for self delusion. Instead, we need to protect ourselves from ourselves. What do you think is the best way to change our human centered narcissistic views and move towards sustainability with a humble hand?
Lilia, I think this is a big challenge for the future. But a very necessary one, on our path to sustainability. We need to understand the value in biodiversity and the other plant and animal species that exist in the complicated web of life. First, I think many of the modern religions, especially Christianity, promote the idea of man as the center of existence. Spirituality is obviously very important to human existence, so we can’t just throw religion out of the window. I think we need to transition new ideas of spirituality such as nature and the web of life in the place of religion. I think now, many of us are realizing that we are not guiding the planet, but only using all of its resources. And this is an important shift in thinking. Lastly, I think hands-on experience early in life is important to gain an appreciation of nature. Just think, many people hold silly fears for the woods, spiders, frogs, etc. If they had been exposed to the truths at a younger age, they would have a much greater respect for other species on the planet.
Delete"'The ridge, of course, represents the knife-edge of survival. The man lives on the knife-edge of survival and has to struggle perpetually to keep from falling off. Actually it's as though the ridge and the sky are in motion instead of him. He's running in the place, trapped, going nowhere.'" (Ishmael, pg. 220)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me with the sharp metaphor it portrays. It reflects on the darkness of a struggle for the purpose of survival, or at least that we in our society perceive this way. What I took away from it is our need to feel in control of everything around us, including the earth. Would a hunter-gatherer society really be a better way to live? What are a few of the advantages and disadvantages of both sides of this argument?
A transition to a hunter- gatherer society is absolutely impractical. We have made progress as a human race and will never forfeit that progress. Instead, the solution that is more likely to answer the issues at hand will be progress in the direction of a more sustainable society. As you said, we have a need to control our surrounding to feel safe in it and that is exactly that we will continue to do. Considering the circumstances we are facing in 2015, it is not too late to change the world and save the world. All it will take to do so is a paradigm shift. How that shift will happen if it does can only be told by time.
Delete"ancient customs are nice for institutions, ceremonies, and holiday, ut takers dont want to adopt them fro everyday living" Why don't takers want to keep their traditions? what makes them diffrent from leavers? Why is culture such a dividing point.. either they do or don't use it.. If we arent passing on out knowledge then whats the point in having a want to know whats going on?
ReplyDelete“You must change people’s minds. And you can’t just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they’ve lost” (Ishmael, 249).
ReplyDeleteI think this idea of giving people something to stand on is really important. We can't just criticize the way people live, we have to offer an alternative. What kind of alternative should that be? Should it be religion, some sort of spirituality or ethic, or something else? How do we make that alternative a reality?
This reminds me of the best way to unite people- give them a common enemy. It's a popular literary tool and a brilliant tactical move in war and life. I'm not exactly sure that this could apply to our general environmental situation, since there's no immediate threat that's immediate enough to unite the world against itself, but in theory, there's nothing better that we could do. Instead of feuding with the world, we'd start a battle against the people that continue to do so, on behalf of the Earth.
DeleteThat purpose would fill the void, which I suppose would be a new ethic filling the space left behind. I don't know how to get there, but I know it will take time.
"I think that's what you're groping for is that people need more than to be scolded, more than to be made to feel stupid and guilty. They need more than a vision of doom. They need a vision of the world and of themselves that inspires them." Ishmael, 148. I think this quote represents the change in view that needs to be done in order to sustain the environment effectively. Rather than attempting to help nature because of the doom that it will cause, people should be helping to help preserve its beauty and natural resources that it comes with.
ReplyDelete"The answer is, I just didn't think of it. I'm limited, okay? I get used to doing things in a certain way, and that doesn't include taking trips in rented vans" (Ishmael p. 260)
ReplyDeleteWhile I was reading Ishmael, this particular quote really stood out to me, because I think that majority of us can relate and apply this quote into our lives when it comes to problem solving. I think it is absolutely crucial for us to think about the many perspectives and methods when we are making decisions. When it comes to sustainability, we should be able to think broadly and widely on how our everyday decisions can impact the environment and not discard ways that can benefit the environment simply because it's not a typical thing for us to do or because we haven't thought about this or that way. One action may greatly impact something else, and we should keep this in mind as we continue with our everyday lives.
“We’re definitely living in a way that’s going to put an end to creation. If we go on, there will be no successor to man, no successor to chimpanzees, no successor to orangutans, no successor to gorillas—no successor to anything alive now. The whole thing is going to come to an end with us.” (Ishmael, pg. 238,239)
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote because of its relevance to the huge decline in species globally. As we continue to develop, we also continue to destroy the environment, and in doing so continue to force more and more species to extinction and endangerment. This is all because of the way we are living, and in almost all cases, not the work of mother nature, naturally. Because of this, we are losing the ability to see hundreds, if not thousands of species ever again, except for maybe in rare photographs. With each loss, goes another beautiful and unique creature to never walk the Earth again. When are people going to realize this can only go on for so much longer before it is us who become endangered. It is a fact that there are keystone species, that are imperative to the life of other species. What is going to happen when the keystone species that affect our lives, become endangered and or extinct? Then will it be too late? Or by then do you think we will finally come to our senses and fix the situation we put ourselves in.
I agree with this quote from Ishmael. Our society has been built upon the idea that humans are destined for greatness and that evolution ended with modern day humans. Our society tells us to keep inventing and creating despite its environmental effects because it is our right and destiny to "conquer to Earth. We are to live in opposition with the earth rather than harmony and that is what is creating the environmental problems of the modern times. Our choices have put the rest of the world and its living organisms at risk and therefore our own decisions have put us at risk because without everything else living healthy on the planet, we cannot either. Coexistence is key to sustainability.
DeleteYou make a lot of great points. I also think this quote speaks to not just the issue of biodiversity but also human dignity. The issue is that people really do believe that we have resources that will last forever, and if not, the lack of them is a problem for future generations. Otherwise why wouldn't we be doing something more substantial? If the path we are taking is towards doom it would be unconscionable for us to knowingly continue. It has to be ignorance. Also what alternative do we have than simply fixing the issue? I just don't understand what humanity will do if we don't face these issues head on and deal with them.
Delete“You must change people’s minds. And you can’t just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they’ve lost.” (Ishmael pg. 249)
ReplyDeleteI agree with this quote from Ishmael. If our society changes from the materialistic society and we take certain things away that people have now, what could they be replaced by? A fuller understanding of sustainability and increased human dignity through that? Do you believe that is achievable?
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Delete“… The Leavers of the world hadn’t forgotten how to live. They still knew, but the people of my culture had forgotten, had cut themselves off from a tradition that told them how to live… None of these [Leavers] cultures were inventions. But that’s what all our lawgivers gave us – inventions.” (Ishmael p. 205)
ReplyDeleteMany of the Leaver cultures of our world live in a manner that has been sustainable over many millennia. This way is sustainable for their people’s culture, dignity, and the environment. I think we have a lot to learn and ideas that we could take from the Leaver cultures to make our own modern lives more sustainable. For example, growing vegetable crops surrounding the home and using natural fertilizers has been a sustainable growing technique for many areas. What other examples can we take?
Let the gratefulness overflow into blessing all around you. And then, it will be a good day. (Louie Schwartzberg: Nature. Beauty. Gratitude. 9:02-9:17)
ReplyDeleteThis video was very inspiring. I believe that positivity and happiness is contagious. It reminds me that being happy is a conscious decision not only to make your day great, but to help someone else who may be having a bad day. The subtleties in life are what have the biggest impact. Has anyone ever changed your mood simply by being happy and positive around you?
I think there is a lot to be said for a positive atmosphere. People have all different kinds of names for it, like good vibes, positivity, well wishes, etc. All of these ideas boil down to one central concept: Happiness is contagious. I've heard a cliche time and time again that I think also works well here, no matter how cheesy it might sound. The saying goes something along the lines of, "The more love you give, the more love you have." It's one of the few things on Earth that we have more of the more we give it out to people. Essentially, spreading love, positivity, and happiness helps others feel that same positivity that you feel, and the good karma that you create comes back to help you out when you're having a rough day. Everyone deserves to be happy, and spreading out your good mood is just one way to contribute to that ideal.
DeleteI completely agree, in a happy environment happiness is contagious. There are so many possibilities throughout one’s day to experience happiness purely from their surroundings but too often people become caught up in the little things that then they are prevented from experiencing or even recognizing these moments of pleasure. Furthermore Schwartzberg says, “we are a part of nature, and we’re not separate from it”. He says nature is a gift, yet today it does not seem like everyone on this world respects nature as a gift. I think if we tried to incorporate the idea that nature is a gift back into society’s opinion of nature we would be more effective in recognizing nature's beauty each day.
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ReplyDelete"Without the spring emergence of the hungry caterpillar to chew holes in the dense canopy, there wouldn't be enough light flooding the forest floor, and with less light down here, there'll be less growing for our snowshoe hare to forage and hide in, and then there would be nothing for AL-111 and those thousands of other lynxes to eat." (The Magical Forest, 27:30)
ReplyDeleteThe documentary does a wonderful job emphasizing the important interdependent relationships that exist in nature and that nature needs to function and survive. For us its also a reminder of the importance of biodiversity and making sure we keep the earth as diverse as possible, which means protecting habitats and living sustain-ably. This is because, as you can see in the video, even the tiniest organism (such as the worms) has a monumental effect on its ecosystem, leading our disturbance and harming of the environment to have disastrous effects.
"They're going to go on treating the world as if it were a piece of human property and they're going to go on conquering it as if it were an adversary" pg. 249
ReplyDeleteI think this excerpt is powerful in that it really illustrates and explains why we used the language we did in the past as we developed and grew. People "conquered" and "tamed" nature. I think nowadays that sort of thinking is beginning to disappear and we use much less of that kind of language.
I think the reason why our use of particular language has changed so much in the last decade or so is because the pendulum is swinging. We have removed ourselves so far from nature and some of us are becoming enlightened on the true problem which requires a holistic solution. I do think that not enough people understand the power that being in nature can give to a human, but I think that will change as we start to incorporate nature more into the design of buildings. Particularly with the popularization of green roofs and indoor gardening. People will once again understand that they need nature as much as nature needs us to protect it and nourish it.
DeleteGreat point! I do think that as we progress as a society, there is much less need to demonstrate our absolute dominance over the land. However, I do believe that the language is not the pinnacle of the problem regarding using and abusing the environment. Even as a progressive society postindustrial revolution, mankind was adamant that the land was given to them by god for their use and only for their use. The ability to exploit the environment was only countered by the limitation and current market value of said resources. Unfortunately, as long as we continue to see ourselves as the masters of the universe, the problem with destruction of the natural world will most likely continue.
Delete“You must change people’s minds…” (Ishmael, 249)
ReplyDeleteI tend to believe that the most impactful way to change our society to something that is much more sustainable would be to educate everyone on environmental issues. If everyone understood their impact as well as their potential for improving the world, things would change. However, after reading this quote in Ishmael, I had a major change in perspective. It doesn’t necessarily matter how much information a person obtains, they need to have their perspective or mind changed before they can even accept and understand the facts. Just look at a lot of people in this country. So many people deny climate change, but there is a major divide in young people who accept climate change as an obvious occurence and older citizens who reject all the science even after they are presented with the data. What needs to happen to those older citizens, who are most likely the population of the “Caring Middle” is that we need to change their mind on climate change. We don’t need to teach them how to solve it, but we need them to see the connection between them and everything else in this world.
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ReplyDeleteHello Matthew! You have made many valuable statements in your post this week. I also felt strongly influenced by this little girls words from the TED talk. The reason I felt they were so beautiful was despite her young age her words were full of truth. Maybe it was because she was so young and hasn't been tainted by her society, social media, and many other distractions in our life that take away from the beauty of the Earth. I think if we all had the imaginative, adventurous minds of the youth we would live in a much healthier and happy world.
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ReplyDelete“I didn’t intend to think about the problems ahead, because they were just too tough. How do you get a half-ton gorilla out of a cage that he doesn’t care to vacate? How do you get a half-ton gorilla into the back seat of a car that he doesn’t care to rise in? Would a car with a half-ton gorilla in the back seat even function(Ishmael, Quinn, pg. 157)
ReplyDeleteHello class! This quote from the reading is extremely relevant to the society we live in today. Many times we try to avoid a problem in the hopes that either a) the problem will just disappear , or b) we are scared to face our fears head on. For example, when I lose my keys I don’t look for them because I am scared to face the fact I actually lost them. On a much larger scale we have been trying to ignore the fact that our environment is worsening. How much longer can people avoid the fact that our world is slowly deteriorating and the planet is running out of resources? As the newest generation of sustainability advocates we need to face this “fear” head on and start the sustainable revolution. As Dr. Chandler stated in lecture our world is run on “fear” better known as “fear mastery.” Meaning fear is the driving force of life. Fear both influences us to take action and hide from our problems. Regarding the environment, do you (as a sustainability studies student) feel that our fear will ultimately drive us to take action and create solutions to our problems regarding a lack of resources?
"They're going to go on treating the world as if it were a piece of human property and they're going to go on conquering it as if it were an adversary" pg. 249
ReplyDeleteThe idea that humans have an innate need to expand and consequently destroy is deeply imbedded into modern society. Comparing the Native Americans’ attitudes toward the natural environment with the English Settlers is the largest observable difference in appreciation of the value of the natural world. How could one improve their attitude toward nature, to where they would not feel they need to destroy?
"...your species is not exempt from the biological realities that govern all other species." (Ishamel, 138)
ReplyDeleteThis quote offers a view of the world that is imperative to the protection of the natural world. Instead of viewing ourselves as rulers of the natural world and all other species, known as the egosystem perspective, we must learn to understand that just like us, every other species and organism on this earth is just as important to the natural world. In other words, in order to help ourselves, as well as those that share this earth with us, we must forgo our idea of being a superior species and recognize the importance of all other species, which is perfectly illustrated in the assigned documentary, The Magical Forest.
I think that this idea is a large issue in the environmental world today. People seem to think that we rule the world since we are “at the top of food chain”. This idea is both antiquated and wont sustain us for much longer. We rely on other life forms just as much as they rely on earth. We eat plants, animals, and drink the earth’s water. We cant live without all of these together. The world itself is a large multi-linked ecosystem that relies on each other and the multitude of relationships as a whole. The earth will not function properly with out the coexistence of humans, plants, and the rest of the animal kingdom.
DeleteThe human ego has created an illusion of separation that has resulted in an extreme disconnect to the natural world around us. There is a widespread misconception that man is in control and the environment and other inhabitants are here for our disposable use. Our intellect has become our downfall. We have forgotten our natural roots and connection to the Earth and other living organisms. As we evolve, we progress further away from our true selves. Technology has widened the gap between us and the planet, making it easier to exploit and deplete it. Once we stray away from this misconstrued idea of ‘progression’ and work towards aligning the human frequency in harmony with the Earth and other inhabitants, we can truly progress and thrive.
Delete"As long as the people of your culture are convinced that the world belongs to them and that their divinely-appointed destiny is to conquer and rule it, then they are of course going to go on acting the way they've been acting for the past ten thousand years" (Ishmael 249)
ReplyDeleteThis quote to me is so powerful. It completely shows the disconnect that humans have today between themselves and nature- man believes it is his right and job to "conquer" the world and believes he is the most supreme living thing on this earth. This is so far from the truth. What this quote is telling us is that we must realize we are ONE with the earth. We are just as much a part of it as the plants, animals, and wildlife around us. We all rely on each other equally for survival and for centuries we have not been holding up our end of this deal. Our world is suffering because of our lack of education and concern about this issue. What do you think is the best way to make people aware of this fact that we coexist with the earth, not just "rule" over it?
I really do think that education is the biggest solution to our current problem. We need to start teaching the children at an early age to help with the future rather than focusing on creating a quick fix that will only delay the real problems that build up. Education in schools now are so focused on creating an education that allows students to do well in high paying jobs, such as engineering and medicine, but don't focus on the jobs that are needed everyday and would actually benefit the base of society, such as agriculture and etc. I think that back in the days when wood shop, parenting and agriculture classes were mandatory were the best times of education. I feel that gave more purpose to life.
Delete"It's because there's something fundamentally wrong with humans. Something that definitely fundamentally wrong with humans. something that makes people stupid and destructive and greedy and shortsighted" (Ishmael, pg 83)
ReplyDeleteThis quote i feel is very relevant to my beliefs. I feel that there is something wrong with our "human nature". I believe that the biggest problem with our society is our greed. As Dr. Chandler and I have discussed previously, this all falls back to our fear of terror. We get so scared of what could happen in the future that we allow it to rule our lives, causing greed, stupidity and etc. I feel that our best hope for the future is if everyone changed their way of thinking and accepted our fears and flaws, but that is probably not going to happen. Do you agree that one of our biggest downfalls in society is our fear of terror/greed or what do you think is?
I agree with most of what you said. But I think the real downfall is people who aspire to attain wealth and those who are greedy. Corporations that aim to grow and use resources are the biggest threat to nature and our human nature tells us that we should use the resources the earth has in order to grow as a population. We cannot expect everyone to change to accept their fears because that is just impossible with 7 billion people. We need to figure out a plan that everyone can follow in order to become more sustainable.
DeleteChristine,
DeleteI agree with you on that. I feel that our greatest downfall is fear which leads to greed. The Takers decided that instead of having a population dwindle because of loss of food due to a drought, they were going to take matters into their own hands and grow more food than what was necessary for them to live in balance with the earth's resources. Doing this, leads to an imbalance in nature and that is why there is an ever-expanding population problem. And I believe this is where our culture's failures and corruptions began. It has lead us to find more and more ways, albeit through technology or brain wash, of controlling our ways of living. My theory is that we try to control what we fear so that we feel more powerful, but in the end, there are things we just can't control. And we are beginning to feel the consequences of our past efforts in controlling our planet and its climate more quickly and intensely now. I hope that the new fear rising in us about climate change will lead us into the right direction this time and not further into oblivion through control and manipulation, which clearly has not been working. It is up to us to change our thoughts about how hunter-gatherer societies lived and remove the repulsiveness Mother Culture has injected our brains to associate with these much more effective prehistoric lifestyles.
"Man was born to turn the world into paradise, but tragically he was born flawed. And so his paradise has always been spoiled by stupidity, greed, destructiveness, and shortsightedness." (page 83)
ReplyDeleteThis excerpt is particularly important to me because I think that the path to a sustainable global community begins at the individual level. If we can act without being guided by stupidity, greed, destructiveness, or shortsightedness, then we have a chance to make a difference in this world. What other characteristics do you think we need to overcome in order to achieve sustainability?
I think you touch on a very important topic here and I would include ignorance as one of the characteristics we need to change. I do make a distinction between ignorance and stupidity, as one can still be stupid even when he knows the facts and thus is not ignorant. However, I believe that many of our issues nowadays, including sustainability (or lack thereof) arise from ignorance, from people simply not knowing what they are talking about. That is why education is the single most important focus to a society that aspires to reach sustainability. Once people are enlightened, they undergo a paradigm shift and change their thoughts and actions.
Delete
DeleteI think complacency is a big part of our problem. Most people do not act evil, or good, or heroic. Activism is so rare because it requires action. Most people do not even vote, let alone get involved with political systems or potentially dangerous situations, like protests. On an individual level, I think viewing involvement in the world as a burden is something you can change about yourself; however, I think the political and social climate we are in makes involvement near impossible for many. People who go to school, who work all day, and who have families do not have the energy or time to participate in a risky and all-encompassing mission like activism. This is why those who have little responsibility, ample time, or just the intense drive and leadership are the ones who need to begin the movement. By shifting cultural attitudes, others can begin to look inward.
Mia, I really like the quote you have picked as well. What is imperative to understand is that we are born flawed, every single one of us. I suppose it's due to our "human nature", but there are so many variables we could evaluate to know exactly why we operate the way we do. I think that's a prevailing reason why the author had Ishmael be a gorilla in the first place. We as humans are imperfect, and therefore, we are never going to be able to make the perfect decisions our planet needs without our emotions and personal reasons involved. That's why Ishmael was a gorilla. We have to be able to learn from the world and nature, instead of demanding the world learn from us. Just because we are "the most intelligent animal" and have a higher form of self-consciousness that other species are not gifted with, does not mean we know what's best for the entire planet. Heck, most of the time, we don't even know the best thing to eat for breakfast. I think once we push our pride aside, we will be able to transition to sustainability much smoother.
Delete"In my experience, you never really know how you're going to handle a problem until you actually have it." Ishmael Page 259
ReplyDeleteI really liked this quote because I feel as though it describes how we as a society tend to deal with our problems. Although we typically have ideas about how we are going to handle our problems, we never truly know what to do until the problem arises. This relates to sustainability because we tend to not actually address most of our environmental problems until we are faced with them. The recent drought in California is an example of this because until the drought became extremely severe, there was not much done widespread to conserve water and take other measures to reduce the impacts of the water shortage. Once they were actually forced to deal with drought, they had to formulate plans to deal with it and implement measures to improve the conditions.
I also agree with this quote. It seems as though no matter how much planning we do, we as humans are never able to fully predict the outcomes of any given problem, nor how we are really going to be able to deal with said problems. That being said, we should still try to employ some forethought when it comes to big disasters such as drought. Although "hindsight is 20-20", there are still many precautions that can be taken to prevent large disasters like the drought in California. Sustainability is all about anticipating what future problems might serve as inhibitors to the continued function of the Earth's living and non-living ecosystems, and while we cannot fully predict the future, we must be aware as we can about what it might yield.
Delete“Stopping pollution is not inspiring. Sorting your trash is not inspiring. Cutting down on fluorocarbons is not inspiring. But this . . . thinking of ourselves in a new way, thinking of the world in a new way . . . This . . .”- Ishmael, page 244.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, one of the most predominant issues with the sustainability movement is that the methods in which people are encouraged to change their lifestyles is not inspiring. A lack of inspiration leads to an unmotivated populace, which in turn translates to a lack of viable effort on behalf of these people to instill actual change. I believe that sustainability is not inspiring to a lot of people because they are not looking at the big picture. They may think “sorting my trash is inconveniencing my life” or “knocking a few minutes off my shower won’t do anything to help the Earth” because they are thinking both narrow-mindedly and of the short-term. Only when people become educated about all of the ways in which they can make actual, significant strides towards protecting the environment, and start to think about the world in context of the bigger picture and not just their own, individual well-being, will be able to embrace a sustainable future.
I agree with your quote because most people view their everyday practices as a small drop in the ocean. For me, I know that sometimes I believe “how can my one little act make a difference?” But it is true. It takes one person to tip the scale towards change-good or bad. I believe that once we become aware of our harm, we can cut back. In all honesty, there are small things we can change that will have a lasting impact on the future. If we stop thinking about our impact on today and look towards tomorrow and years and years from now, then we will be able to make a difference.
Delete"and for 3 million years man belonged to the world--and because he belonged to the world, he grew he became brighter and more dexterous that we had to call him homo sapiens sapiens..." The "leavers" lives as if they belong to the world and in this mindset they flourished. I feel that we now feel as if we are the world and in many ways we control it. If only we could again revert to becoming a creation and not a creator I feel we would solve over half of our issues.
ReplyDeleteTyler that is a great point, and often time I have heard Dr. Chandler support this idea of reversion in regards to agriculture. Dr. Chandler asserts we need to revert back to more traditional polyculture in order to lessen the impact of the cultivated environment on the world's ecosystems. In some ways I agree with this line of thought as it is natural to think "well it was good before so let's go back to that point", yet at the same time we cannot tune out human growth towards technology and change. I believe a balance of working to revert back to natural systems and developing new technologies that make human activity more efficient is the most viable solution to keeping the world healthy.
Delete"The world was made for man." pg. 61
ReplyDeleteThis quote really describes how man has conquered all of the rest of nature and can use its resources as we please. I think we need to reflect on this quote and turn our attention away from this quote and start thinking that we are just a small part of nature. Nature relies on the rest of nature as seen in the documentary "The Magical Forest" . In order to be a sustainable society we have to play our part in nature to keep it functioning the way that it is.
What are some ways we can keep nature beautiful and play our role in society?
"You can't change these things with laws. You must change people's minds." (Ishmael, page 249)
ReplyDeleteThis quote coincides with many of the issues sustainability is currently trying to overcome. People are not truly going to change their lives to sustainable practices from the enactment of a law. What type of tipping points to do you it will take to change people's minds about sustainability to the extent that they adopt a new sustainable lifestyle?
Elizabeth, I like the quote you've used and I think that this is definitely a question that needs to be answered. Personally, I believe that we must make people aware that our environmental degradation is not just a myth, it is a very real thing growing worse every day. I also think that people are not buying into the fact that the Earth is changing before our eyes. If we can show people that their current actions are affecting the Earth in a way that can be seen currently, and not simply some time in the eventual future, they would make the much needed lifestyle changes.
DeleteWow this is very true! You can try to control or reprimand people all you want. However, many people will choose not to listen. Many people will stay firmly in their beliefs, even if they are not appropriate. Unfortunately, people only change their mind or decide to make changes when its too late. It takes a catastrophic event, and usually one that directly affects the individual, to get someone to enact change. I think the damage we've done will be irreversable by the time when have enough people to accept the changes they must make.
Delete"They're going to go on treating the world as if it were a piece of human property..." (PG249)
ReplyDeleteI think that this idea is a large issue in the environmental world today. Many people see absolutely no issue in completely depleting the earth’s resources and moving on. They see the earth as nothing more than a non-renewable resource. We have yet to even scratch the surface on our known biodiversity on earth. How can we continue to thrive, learn, and live if we treat our main source of life as a non-renewable source?
I think that we treat our world as a renewable resource rather than a nonrenewable one, which is what is causing its rapid destruction. We act like all the resources found on earth never run out and that all of these resources belong to us rather than the earth. With the way we are treating the earth now, we will not be able to thrive, learn, and live for much longer. Once we stop treating the earth and the resources on it as never-ending, we will be able to improve our chances at survival for the future. It will also help us live better lifestyles and learn from the world we live in.
Delete"The premise of the Taker story is the world belongs to man...The premise of the Leaver story is man belongs to the world." page 239
ReplyDeleteI feel that this quote perfectly sums up the error in our current ideology. It sees that to many of our decisions only consider the effect they play on the human race. What are some examples of ways that we can change our habits in order to live like the earth is not just our property?
DeleteThe importance in answering this question is to understand that humanity can still progress as a society while learning to coexist with all of creation. The first step would be, obviously, partaking in sustainable practices. For example, we need to be aware of when we infringe upon and damage natural ecosystems. Although it may seem that killing certain animals is beneficial in the short term, like Ishmael says, there is always a cause and effect. When we kill off our species, we are ultimately directing the earth in a way that will be unsustainable for the future. Therefore, the first step in recognizing the earth is not just our property would be being aware that our actions have consequences on others.
This is what we need. Not just stopping things. Not just less of things. People need something positive to work for... thinking of ourselves in a new way, thinking of the world in a new way." (Ishmael. Pg 243.). This quote jumped out at me because it emphasizes the need of not only stopping unsustainable habits, whether they are municipal or industrial, but replacing them with more sustainable practices in the strive toward keeping our world interconnected, protected, and balanced. For example, If you want people to stop drinking water from plastic water bottles you could simply ask them to switch to re-usable water bottles reasons being that it is creating less waste, thus make them aware of their wastefulness, and emphasize that these movements require momentum and can start with one person, this points out their individual significance to moving the planet toward being more sustainable.
ReplyDeleteMatthew,
DeleteI agree with you that we must take a step and look at how humanity has done thing in the past if we want to make sustainable practices that work in the future. I do not think the only way for Earth to be prosperous again is for mankind to die out. I believe we, collectively must change how we view and respect the Earth. I like how you stated something so simple that people could do, such as drinking water from a reusable bottle to create less waste. I think we also need to put pressure on big corporations and governments across the nation to put aside differences and greed and do what is best for every human living on Earth. Make a focus on new technologies that encourage sustainability and green practices and we must put more emphasis on equality and human rights for all and I think eventually, people will do what’s right for the environment and the future.
"There's nothing fundamentally wrong with people. Given a story to enact that puts them in accord with the world, they will live in accord with the world. But... given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now." (Ishmael 84)
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting concept, one that I believe is true. It's like the problem that faces inner-city school children: they are treated like delinquents, and so they behave as such. If we are trained to act like enemies of the Earth, then we will be. The way that we behave as a society is not 'human nature', but rather, a product of the environment we (unfortunately) were raised in. But that's not to say that we are helpless against those powers- we are capable of change.
This quote really goes along with the idea that people start out as blank slates. For example, no one starts out racist. Rather, they are taught that behavior. Same goes for this. If from the beginning we are taught to live alongside the world rather than against it, sustainable living would be a breeze. We unfortunately live in a culture in which the exploitation of the earth for man’s advantage is normal. Richard Louv battles this entire mentality in his book Last Child in the Woods by encouraging children’s play in natural environments and appreciating the natural world from an early age. I feel this is a good example of how man is capable of change.
Delete“Then the law will do it for them. If they refuse to live under the law, then they simply won’t live. You might say that this is one of the law’s basic operations: Those who threaten the stability of the community by defying the law automatically eliminate themselves” (Ishmael, pg 144).
ReplyDeleteThis quote follows Ishmael’s explanation of the overarching law that all of creation lives by. This law is concerned with how the countless species and aspects of nature interact with one another. Unfortunately, Man has completely disregarded this law, and rashly killed off other species for its own benefit. This whole idea reminded me of The Magical Forest, the documentary we had to watch this past week. The documentary explained how every aspect of the forest in the northwest regions is interconnected even something as minute as a moth worm and the influence it has over the diet of lynxes. Every species is reliant on one another, which is why it is so devastating when we force them into extinction. What can we do in our community to help stop the endangering of species?
“…people need more than to be scolded, more than to be made to feel stupid and guilty. They need more than a vision of doom. They need a vision of the world and of themselves that inspires them." pg 148
ReplyDeleteI believe this is one of the biggest pitfalls in the world of sustainability in the aspect of educating people new to the field. Many people see people who study sustainability as people who are looking to take away their comfortable lifestyles, spreading the message that if they refuse to change, the end of the world is on their heads. As superficial as it sounds, countless people are very turned off by that approach. Very few people want to change when they are accused and painted as ignorant and a person who destroys the earth. It is much more effective when people are shown the positive things of something as simple as changing their lightbulbs or buying their vegetables at the local farmers’ market can do. Once the image of sustainability can successfully make this shift, this green movement will continue to grow and we will be that much closer to a more sustainable future.
I like this because it is very similar to the quote I choose, "You must change people's minds. And you can't just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they've lost”. As so often we have talked about in this class, people don’t want to deal with what they fear and people are naturally hostile towards ideas or things that remind them of their death or possible undoing. The job and future of sustainability in our world is to introduce it into our society in a way that evokes meaning. When people come terms with the fact that our Earth is the only one we got and it won’t last then it won’t be so hard for them to find meaning. If someone was told that their house was being destroyed, they would do everything in their power to fix it so why don’t people see the Earth in the same way?
DeleteIn Daniel Quinn's Ishmael, it is asserted that "In this condition, man could not be truly man (68)". This means humans cannot exist as animals in nature because existing in an animistic fashion, lacks an obvious human component. I believe this component is the mind. In reading The Denial of Death by Earnest Becker, I became conscious that human life is a dual system, constituting of the mind and the body ("existential paradox"). Living as an animal satisfies human bodily needs, but is devoid of satisfying the needs and interest of the mind. Quinn goes with the story of human history by saying humans elevated themselves from nature but in doing so ruined the world because of inherent human flaw. Since humans feel the essential need to balance mind and body (which detaches them from nature), how can humans go on existing, while not negatively impacting the environment?
ReplyDelete^Cassondra Newman. Sorry I used a different Email.
DeleteI also read "The Denial of Death" and came to this same realization. Towards the end of "Ishmael", the idea is brought up that all creatures will eventually revolutionize to have self awareness and divine intentions. This would not only cause men to seem "plain" as mentioned in the book, they also may experience the internal conflict we subconsciously encounter in our day to day lives. My question is, will this human-like flaw of the fear of death impact all creatures' existences, thus causing them to destroy our environment as well, or when that time comes, would we be knowledgable enough to be the "teachers" just as Ishmael mentions? Also, because all creatures would attain humanistic traits, would they have to go through the near destruction themselves to truly understand it's dangers? This is just a book, but it brings up some heavy concepts.
DeleteJaneshly Algarin
This is a very interesting connection of works, but I find that it produces a very sound and true statement that I can agree with. I would concur that, for humans to exist without making a negative impact on the environment, they would need to realize that their body MUST exist for their mind to exist. Per say, their body must be able to be born and grow and thrive in nature for the existence of the mind to occur. What happens to the mind after the body dies is irrelevant in this issue, as simply the mind would not be there in the first place if the body cannot survive to be born. Thus, although we may aim to achieve a balance between he mind and body, we must realize that at the end of the day, our bodies are anchored to nature and cannot exist unless the earth is able to sustain life.
Delete“Absolutely. In the hands of the gods you’re no more important than lions or lizards or fleas. In the hands of these gods—these gods who look after lions and lizards and fleas—you’re nothing special. You’re just another animal to be fed. Wait a second,” I said, and closed my eyes for a couple minutes. “Okay, this is important. The gods make no distinction between you and any other creature. No, that’s not quite it. Hold on.” I went back to work, then tried again. “Here it is: What the gods provide is enough for your life as animals—I grant you that. But for your life as humans, you must provide. The gods are not going to do that.” pg 138
ReplyDeleteThis quote really struck me because it deals with the primitive moral question of how much is a life worth. Furthermore it debates whether human lives are more important than animal ones. Even though I don't advocate against animal rights, I still to have a deep belief a human life is worth much more than an animal's. What do you think? Should we, as human beings, decide that we are worth more than an animal or is there an innate equality of different lives in "nature's" eyes?
“As long as the people of your culture are convinced that the world belongs to them and that their divinely–appointed destiny is to conquer and rule it, then they are of course going to go on acting the way they’ve been acting for the past ten thousand years. They’re going to go on treating the world as if it were a piece of human property and they’re going to go on conquering it as if it were an adversary.”
ReplyDelete(Ishmael pg. 249)
This quote was so important to me because even I realize that I live with this terrible mindset. It is the mindset that your actions do not really affect nature, and that you can live your life completely independent of nature and use the natural resources as you see fit. Especially in American culture, we believe that we OWN the land we are on, and even try to dispel wild animals that try and inhabit the land with us. We believe that we have the god given right to water, and that we can use as much of it as we want, just because the concept of a finite source of resources is a foreign concept to us. We are living within the means of a delusion of abundance, and our belief that we are divine creatures blinds us from seeing the truth. So my question is thus, what would it take for humanity to remove this institutionalized way of thinking that humans are independent of nature, so that we may finally see nature as one with us and move to be sustainable?
Hali McKinley Lester:
DeleteI really like your point here. Humans have, as they have developed “civilization” have become hungry for more. We want to own everything: material goods, the land, water, etc. This past summer, a man was killed by a bear at Yellowstone National Park. Park officials then killed the bear when the found it. This event really upset me because the man had known that he was in bear country, and the bear was simply acting against what she thought was a threat to her cubs. Yet, humans have this belief that we have a right to be everywhere and own everything, which is contributing to our sustainability crisis. I think one of the best ways to change this way of thinking is through education and raising awareness. It can start at the grassroots level, with people like us, who begin by spreading this knowledge to friends and family. An especially important audience is parents because they must get their children to experience nature and all the beauty and wonder that goes along with it. If children grow up with this connection to nature, they will be more invested in living sustainably. Although this problem must be fixed more rapidly, education and awareness are the important first steps.
(Page 118-119)
ReplyDelete“And then about ten thousand years ago one branch of the family Homo sapiens sapiens said, ‘Man is exempt from this law. The gods never meant man to be bound by it.’ And so they built a civilization that flouts the law at every point, and within five hundred generations- in an eye-blink in the scale of biological time- this branch of the family of Homo sapiens sapiens saw that they had brought the entire world to the point of death…”
Do you agree that man is taking advantage of the Earth and overusing, if so, what are ways for man to counteract what humanity has done?
An entirely new perspective on resources is needed in order to reverse what has happened. Instead of viewing the Earth as a boundless pot of resources for solely human consumption, a more holistic look at what resources go to and how we use them in the most sustainable way is needed. An important part (and arguably the hardest to achieve) is a sense of urgency; the easiest way to counteract these bad effects is in the here and now. The longer abuse of resources and nature goes on, the harder it will be to recover and rebuild what seemed so abundant in the first place.
Delete“And this accumulation is what is called culture.”
ReplyDelete“Yes, I’d say so.”
“It’s the sum total of what’s passed along, of course, not just information and techniques. It’s
beliefs, assumptions, theories, customs, legends, songs, stories, dances, jokes, superstitions,
prejudices, tastes, attitudes. Everything.” (Ishmael, 119,120)
In this section of Ishmael, there is a part where the reader follows along with the narrator as he works to understand what is happening as a whole. Earlier in class today, we discussed The Magical Forest. In the Magical Forest, we learn of the importance of the interconnectedness of all things. To my understanding, I stated that this ‘interconnectedness’ not only applies to the world around us. Moreover, it applies to Sustainability as a whole. In Sustainability we learn to approach things holistically. By approaching things holistically we are able to learn ‘how’ and ‘why’ things happen. As described in the quote above, a reasoning behind why things happen is because of the cultures people attribute themselves to. In our cultures, we learn our beliefs, customs, history, and as the author puts it: “Everything” (Ishmael 120). One thing that seems to be shocking to me is that we use our culture to guide us in our everyday practices, however, sustainability doesn’t seem to be one. In Sustainability, we learn to approach our Earth in such way that no one person’s human dignity is compromised. Cultures teach us that we all belong to a connected group, where everyone is considered equal. In our current ecological world, we are compromising the human dignity of others through our everyday practices. If culture teaches us to go swiftly in this world without harming others, why do we harm our Earth? It is to my understanding that people do things unbeknownst that they are leaving a harmful footprint. Is it still acceptable to say “I didn’t know” anymore?
Nada:
DeleteI agree and really enjoy your quotation from Ishmael. All the aspects mentioned in the statement by Daniel Quinn are all things a society not only needs to focus on passing down to other generations but also to be successful sustainable. It is all about coming together and working on building education to the younger adult and youth.
"Thousands of species will go hungry before he does. His intelligence and dexterity enable him to live comfortably in conditions that would utterly defeat any other primate." - Ishmael, pg 220
ReplyDeleteIt has been firmly established that humans are the superior animal in the world, and this can be seen in ways of mental and physical ability. Humans have great ability to change and manipulate the world to be better suited for man. This is unnecessary, however. Through our superior abilities, humans should have no problem surviving with the same resources available to the other primates. Why then do we feel the need to create so much more? Why can't we simply live without affecting the other species around us?
"'We could have saved him.' Partridge thought about that for a while. 'Are you sure he would have let us?'"
ReplyDelete-Ishmael, pg. 262
When Partridge asked whether Ishmael would have let them save him or not, it led me to think that Ishmael might have wanted to test out one of his quotes: "With gorilla gone, will there be hope for man?". I feel that he wanted to teach his few students that this quote did not make any sense in any way. It lessened the world's diversity and proved how greedy humans can be. Do you think I am on the right track with my thinking? Is this why Ishmael would not have let them save him?
“”…Pre-man evolved into early man because he didn’t take himself out of the competition, because he was still in the place where natural selection is going on.”
ReplyDelete“You mean he was still a part of the general community of life”
Ishmael pg. 238
This section of the book definitively identifies our problem, saying we, the Takers, have completely separated ourselves from nature and declared ourselves superior. Of course, we cannot truly overpower nature, which is where all of our current problems arise from. How do you think we can remind people of our connection to nature? How can we instill in the current society, not even just future generations, the importance of recognizing our inferiority to nature?
I said, “Ishmael is dead.”
ReplyDeleteAfter a pause: “I’m very sorry to hear it.”
“We could have saved him.”
(Ishmael Pg. 159- 160).
This small section from the novel of Ishmael can be categorized as a deep meaning of man and how the end is near. With the gorilla passing away, it symbolizes how the planet is also fading into a nothing. Daniel Quinn uses foreshadowing with Ishmael dying as a representation of the earth crumbling. The prime source of the destruction is from man for both Ishmael and the planet. When stated, “We could have saved him”, this is saying that man could have saved the earth, but now we are too late. This correlates to reality in the fact that man is doing all it can to be destructive instead of focusing of protecting and becoming more sustainable. Quinn wants to highlight that as a society, we need to realized we are not alone on the planet and need to conserve it for generations to come.
"We're not destroying the world because we're clumsy. We're destroying the world
ReplyDeletebecause we are, in a very literal and deliberate way, at war with it." (130) I think this touches on our attitudes as human and our endless desire to conquest. How should our attitudes towards nature be if not war-based? Harmonious? Economical?
Obviously what we're learning is that the only way to restore the natural balance of our earth is to live harmoniously with mother nature. Economical tactics will continue to drive the sense of connection further and further from the surface. The earth knows what needs to be done to live at ease, and we as humans failing to admit ignorance and recognize the greater knowledge of the cosmos will continue to harm our family and our home. Not living harmoniously with nature has brought humanity to be the bitchy cousin of the family who moves to LA and wants nothing to do with anyone else because she thinks she's better than them. Everybody else has fun and is filled with love at the family reunion and the bitchy cousin never even bothers to show up. It's time for humans to show up to the reunion and start feeling the love.
Delete“People need something positive to work for. . .I think what you’re groping for is that people need more than to be scolded, more than to be made to feel stupid and guilty. They need more than a vision of doom. They need a vision of the world and of themselves that inspires them.”
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting perspective to take on because it sheds light on the fact that humans don’t want to be scolded. They don’t want to stop doing something just because they’re told not to overtime they do it. People need that meaning, that drive. You cannot simply ask someone to do something and expect them to oblige just because you said it. This is parallel to a wise old man warning a young teenager of all the mistakes he went through when he was his age, and telling the teenager how to steer clear of that. This is helpful, but the knowledge can never truly be internalized unless the teenager experiences it for himself to tie that personal meaning to it. Similarly, in this text it’s saying that humans need to be inspired on their own to take action.
Janeshly Algarin
“With man gone, will there be hope for gorilla? With gorilla gone, will there be hope for man?” Ishmael p.263
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me, especially in relation to this week’s The Magical Forest documentary about the interconnectedness of life. It represents how co-dependent the species are upon one another, and acts a reminder that humans are just another species playing a role in the web of life. The global ecosystem has a natural order and rhythm, which humans often attempt to alter and manipulate. No matter how advanced man may seem, he can never out-smart nature. We must accept this and align ourselves with the natural order of life in order to live in harmony with the rest of the planet.
I like that you said " we can never out smart nature ". That is probably one of the most simple yet all encompassing statements that I have heard. Mother nature simply is. Nature is everything we know and the only reason that we are here and yet it seems we are constantly trying to out smart it. We are a product of nature, yet we try so hard to manipulate that which is natural so that it meets our needs. It is a very interesting situation.
DeleteFor the Takers, “the world belongs to man,” while for the Leavers, “man belongs to the world” (Ishmael, 240)
ReplyDeleteThis quote not only summarized the book, but it summarized what is truly wrong with the way that our modern society lives our lives. We have been told to consume, consume, consume, and this leaves us where? We all know that the majority of the wealthy are some of the unhappiest people, so why do we continue to strive toward money and material possessions? We exemplify the Taker way of life, and to me, that's really sad to blindly continue this way of life knowing it's leading us nowhere. It's baffling to see destruction labeled as progress, and success as happiness. If man were to act like he still belonged to the world, instead of the world belonging to him, we would not be in many of the predicaments Quinn mentions throughout the course of the novel, like extracting resources without thinking of repercussions. We've conquered nature, and now we're beating it to death.
Sara
DeleteI completely agree; it really saddens me that people either do not consider the consequences or refuse to acknowledge the problem. This is our home, there’s only one, and it is so beautiful and unique. How people do not care about the environment is beyond me. I also don’t understand why we are looking to the stars for other suitable planets, we should deal with our own, our home. This planet made us and we are subjugating it. There is no need to live the way we live, we just chose to blindly follow it like you said. It really is a shame that this situation has gotten to this point.
Hali McKinley Lester:
ReplyDelete“‘White or colored, male or female, what the people of this culture want is to have as much wealth and power in the Taker prison as they can get. They don’t give a damn that’s a prison and they don’t give a damn that it’s destroying the world.’
Ishmael shrugged. ‘As always, you’re a pessimist. Perhaps you’re right. I hope you’re wrong.’” (Ishmael 253).
I found this exchange of quotes really powerful. I think a lot of times, people who learn about the sustainability crisis find it easy to become pessimistic. It’s easy to say everyone doesn’t care about the world and its destruction. But I prefer to see people more optimistically. I believe that many people do care about our world and want to prevent its destruction. The pessimistic view is limiting our potential because it convinces more people that there’s no point in even looking for a solution. Yet, I believe solutions are out there, but they will take a lot of hard work and undoubtedly sacrifices that people won’t want to make. Do you look at this issue more pessimistically or more optimistically, and why?
Hail, I love that you addressed the matter of the ways in which people view sustainability issues and the world. I choose to look at things optimistically but it can definitely be hard at times. When there are so many environmental issues surrounding life on this planet it’s definitely challenging to not take the pessimistic route, but the only way we can fix it is with hope and optimism. The way we look at the Earth and the problems we impose on it determines how we will be able to help it. Yes, our planet is going through a terrible time and yes people chose to ignore it because it scares them or disgusts them. When you tell many that fifty percent of animal species will be extinct by twenty fifty at the rate we consume and pollute, many people are disgusted. When there is a video of animal torture being passed around on facebook or a documentary about the meat industry most people say they don’t want to watch it because they would rather not know. This is what it all comes down to changing the mindset of people to become their own fear masters, recognize the issues, and believe and fight for change. You must take an optimistic route, otherwise a pessimistic view will allow you to create no change, for you don't believe change is possible or will make a difference.
Delete" I didn't have much money, but I had time and a sense of wonder." Ted Talk by Louie Schwartzberg.
ReplyDeleteThis is a mentality that has become almost entirely lost. I can't think of anyone that I know who isn't focused on securing a job, and an income and having that financial safety net. Time is the most precious of gifts, and yet people seem to think that they are squandering it if they aren't being productive and I catch myself in that same mentality very often. So that makes me ask why is that? Why has the value of wonderment and appreciation and awe been lost or replaced? How does this tie in to sustainability and human dignity?
"You must change people's minds. And you can't just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they've lost” Ishmael- pg. 249
ReplyDeleteThis is an important thing to remember when it comes to sustainability and the fight to change the mindset we have created for ourselves in Western culture. Sustainability is not just an idea or a political view and we cannot treat it as such. We also cannot simply force upon others without first giving them meaning behind why sustainability is so important. To me the meaning of sustainability is a clear cut message of our Earth or home comes first but when we live in society where we are so separated from nature on a daily basis, that meaning gets lost in the void and it is our job as sustainability to bring back that meaning. My question is what is the first step we can take in bringing the meaning of nature and protecting our home back into most people’s lives.
Anyone can persuade someone into making a decision. However, making a decision only feels fulfilling when we believe we actually chose the best option presented. By showing people the benefits of protecting nature, we can show them how nature is important. Only then can the population actively make a decision about protecting nature and feel happy about it. If we make people believe that it is in their best interest to protect the Earth, which it is, then more people will be likely to protect the planet. The strange thing is, is that all the research is there and plenty of opportunities are present for people to do their part in sustainability, but they don't; which brings me back to my original point. You have to show people the benefits nature provides and persuade them why it is vital for their holistic life before more people start acting sustainably.
Delete"WITH GORILLA GONE, WILL THERE BE HOPE FOR MAN?" - Daniel Quinn, pg. 263. The overall theme of Ishmael is that man and nature must work together in order to create the most benefits for each party. Without man, there would be no idea of conservation or understanding of what makes nature work. Similarly, without nature, man could not exist. Nature provides food and resources for everyday living. By understanding the relationship between man and nature, humans can get the best out of planet Earth.
ReplyDeleteYes that is exactly what the book is incorporating into it's understanding. Nature and man to have a co-dependent relationship. Like many species on our planet this is an integral relationship for their health and well being. I hope that we soon are able to realize the impacts we have had and the things wee need to do to correct and save out partner. I think man does have hope and hopefully they will realize we need to change our state of mind and realize what we need to do to make a change.
Delete"I have amazing news for you. Man is not alone on this planet.He is part of a community, on which he depends absolutely." (Ishmael pg.99)
ReplyDeleteThis quote spoke to me in particular because it sums up the general idea of holistic sustainability. At the end of the day we were all born to this planet and depend on it indefinitely to survive yet we continue to kill it and overuse all the resources that allow it to prosper. Why is it that people don't recognize the destruction of our planet is the destruction of our own society?
I really love the quote you picked, Jillian. Ishmael is an incredible book and so eye-opening for the reader. Ishmael, an outsider to the human race, is trying to make his point to the narrator that we cannot be anthropocentric in our thinking. We must think of and respect everything else the Earth holds. I believe it is so easy for people to not see the destruction of the planet as our own destruction because it is not directly affecting us. By tearing down the rainforest or polluting oceans, we are not directly affected by them and we actually reap the short-term benefits. What we fail to see as a community are those long-term consequences that our short-term actions have.
DeleteColette Spieler
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ReplyDelete‘We’re going to change the way people behave toward the world, but we’re not going to change the way they think about the world or the way they think about divine intentions in the world or the way they think about the destiny of man.’' Ishmael, pg 249
ReplyDeleteWhat I especially love about this specific quote is that it ties directly with the causes of environmental degradation. What is so important to realize is that we cannot just take care of the symptoms, we have to go to the CAUSE of the problem and change it there. We are accustomed to making the surface look pretty, in the mean time just masking the root of the problem. Ishmael is teaching this to the narrator throughout the whole book. I truly believe we need to start at the root of the causes of destruction and go from there instead of masking them.
Colette Spieler
“In the wild, the lion kills a gazelle and eats it. It does to kill a second gazelle to save for tomorrow. The deer eats the grass that’s there. It doesn’t cut the grass down and save it for the winter. But these are things the Takers do” Ishmael pg 128
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stuck out to me because it addresses the fundamental problem with the Taker culture, a problem that is also demonstrated in the Tragedy of the Commons by Garrett Hardin. We abuse our resources until there is nothing left of them and it is destroying the planet. In Belize I learned about how people have been greatly overfishing to the point where some breeding sites are functionally extinct. We do not just take what we need, we take the most we can to earn the most profit. This really bothers me because there is no need for us to live like this. Thoughts?
I'm bothered by the fact that we take more then what we need. It's a disturbing thought because when you think about it, every one of us is doing it right now. It's so ingrained into the culture that even when we're aware of it, we don't know any other way to live, or we've purposely made the other way to live impossible so as to promote more of this Taker behavior. Our population is too big for people to go out into nature and pluck fruit from the tree or hunt a deer when they are hungry, and the wilderness has been far to "separated" from us to have access to this option. Vegetarians an vegans are not immune from this either, as they insist on a purely vegetable diet, or nothing at all from animals, that supports agriculture and condemns the original way of both hunting and gathering. We all have fridges, way more clothes than strictly necessary, more possessions then we will ever need as individuals, meanwhile there are many that do not have the basic needs. It's so concerning to see where the problem lies, but being unable to do anything about it because of how deeply ingrained this is, it's a problem dating back 10,000 years ago. Agriculture in itself is not evil, but why do we make it so by destroying and stressing the land until it provides us with more than what is needed to us? On the same token, we see that saving for the future is not entirely human either, that bears, wolves, and other mammals store fat for winter and squirrels store nuts the ground, but again, they only store what they will need to survive the winter season, and although the squirrel forgets where many of its stores are, it does the opposite of destroying the land.
Delete“Next, the Takers systematically destroy their competitors’ food to make room for their own. Nothing like this occurs in the natural community. The rule there is: Take what you need, and leave the rest alone.” - Ishmael pg 72
ReplyDeleteThis goes along our society's hunger for wanting more resources than we actually need. A good example of this is housing where while knowing that a 2-3 person family might only need a house with a small amount of spaces, we keep clearing forests to construct complexes with houses that have more space than what we actually use. In order to truly attain a sustainable society, we need to understand that being able to access a surplus of resources doesn't mean that we must take more than what we need.
I hear you Daniel. I agreed we tend to use more then we need in a consumer based society in which we live. The problem is we run into situations where especally with a growing population people are constantly taking form the land and the earth and not allowing it to replenish/ taking it to fast to put it back.
Delete"When people see my images, a lot of times they'll say, "Oh my God." Have you ever wondered what that meant? The "oh" means it caught your attention, makes you present, makes you mindful. The "my" means it connects with something deep inside your soul. It creates a gateway for your inner voice to rise up and be heard. And "God"? God is that personal journey we all want to be on, to be inspired, to feel like we're connected to a universe that celebrates life." (Nature. Beauty. Gratitude)
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed this quote because it made my think of my own spirituality that I find in nature. This quote also reminds me of the points brought up in Ishmael and The Magical Forest. In the very last words of Ishmael, on the back of the sign that reads "WITH MAN GONE, WILL THERE BE HOPE FOR GORILLA?", says the other statement "WITH GORILLA GONE, WILL THERE BE HOPE FOR MAN?". At first I had no idea what the significance of this was, until I thought for a moment of what the book had to say; I realized that this was not a forewarning of the fall of humankind, but instead it is to say that we rely on nature just as it relies on us, and we must take care of it as it is our caretaker. Our awe of nature is one reason, and perhaps Mr. Schwartzberg might agree with me, the only necessary one, for us to be the guardians of nature and for us to realize our role in this complicated system we call life.
"The limitations of the hunting-gathering life had kept man in check for three million years. With agriculture, those limitations vanished, and his rise was meteoric. Settlement gave rise to the division of labor. Division of labor gave rise to technology." (Ishmael, 69)
ReplyDeleteI find this perspective on why human's behavior is how it is to be quite interesting. We see how human behavior is hurting our planet. Ishmael shows how our impact on the natural world used to be limited when we had limited population, technology and so on. Now we have the means to be much more destructive.
What do you think about this principle? Do you think there is a way to revert back to behaviors similar to those of the hunter-gatherer days?
"Hunter-gatherers no more live on the knife-edge of survival than wolves or lions or sparrows or rabbits. Man was as well adapted to life on this planet as any other species, and the idea that he lived on the knife-edge of survival is simply biological nonsense...hunter-gatherers are among the best-fed people on earth, and they manage this with only two or three hours a day of what you would call work." (Ishmael, 220).
ReplyDeleteThis quote really struck me. We all have this image of our ancestors diseased, starving, and afraid, when in reality, millions of people today cannot feed themselves or work tirelessly just to bring the bare minimum to their houses. I think we have trapped ourselves in this convoluted cycle in an effort to make our lives better, when instead we're making our lives more difficult. The basics for life have become so far removed from our culture.
“No one species shall make the life of the world its own.' … That's one expression of the law. Here's another: 'The world was not made for any one species.”-Ishmael
ReplyDeleteThe human population is beginning to over take the planet. Our planet needs biodiversity to be resilient and to survive. We cannot survive on this planet if it is just use as a species. We need to remember we are not the only species on this planet. How can we change peoples view to remember that we are not the only ones on this planet?
“The world is a very, very fine place. It wasn’t a mess. It didn’t need to be conquered and ruled by man. In other words, the world doesn’t need to belong to man— but it does need man to belong to it.” - Ishmael (243)
ReplyDeleteDo you agree that it is necessary to "belong" to our Earth and do everything in our power to protect it, even if that means sacrificing progress? Or do you feel that the accomplishments of civilization have justified some environmental harm? Is there a third option?
It is necessary to realize we are from Earth. We are nothing more than just another species of animal. We do not survive without the earth. We can no longer sacrifice the earth for our advancement because ultimately the earth is what makes such advancement possible. There is no third option, we need to see our selves as part of this planet and not above it.
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DeleteElizabeth "Rosy" Roberts
DeleteI actually find your question really provocative, and I'm almost at a loss for how to respond. The environmentalist in me says we must protect and return to our earth, but the capitalist-born scientist in me says we must continue on toward progress, with environmental concern as an issue to consider and take care of, but not necessarily make the top priority. How often has science, and progress, been at the cost of many lives? Of course, now the risks are much higher than they've ever been, so the cards aren't quite dealt as obviously. This really challenged my personal philosophy on the matter; it's so easy to go with the 'right' answer, morally speaking, when you're in a room of 100 other people obsessed with sustainability, but when you're home alone and really picking at your own brain, it's tricky.
“You must change people’s minds…” (Quinn Daniel, Ishmael, Page: 249)
ReplyDeleteIt is really important to realize the extent of this quote. This quote means something many can’t understand, the fact that we have an obligation to do our best to help others and shape them into smarter and brighter individuals as part of our society. It is our duty to make sure we change people’s minds in a positive yet impactful way. We must make sure that we are doing our best at providing other with experiences and exposure that will influence them for the better. I think this quote is pretty accurate, but do you? Do you think we should strive to change others and help them go in the right direction?
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ReplyDelete“You must change people’s minds. And you can’t just root out a harmful complex of ideas and leave a void behind; you have to give people something as meaningful as what they’ve lost.” (Ishmael pg. 249)
ReplyDeleteI think this quote is incredibly powerful. IT relates to sustainability because we cannot just change the way people live their lives we must give them intention and reason. We must make them feel like what they are doing is important and meaningful and matters. What are some ways to make this happen? How do we get off our soap box and get down to action and make people feel connected to the mission of sustainability?
"Begin by opening your eyes and be surprised that you have eyes you can open, that incredible array of colors that is constantly offered to us for pure enjoyment." (Nature. Beauty. Gratitude. 5:45)
ReplyDeleteTo treat the simple yet so very complex physiology of vision as a source of enjoyment out things in a different perspective. This emphasizes that the sole purpose of life is to be happy and to simply be. To just look around and appreciate what is right in front of us without worrying about the past or present. Life should be a dance to the beautiful melodies of the oceans, the mountains, or the bloom of a flower. When we begin to see how magically nature harmonizes is when we will see that we, too, a part of this magnificently minuscule point in the universe and that it is here for us to take advantage of or disrupt in any way
I love the quote given within this Ted Talk, in that I feel that all too often people are quick to forget about the great gifts they have been blessed with to bring them this far in life. The mere fact that we have the ability to see is so amazing that is should send us into wonderment with each glance, and yet this becomes mulled down and made less of as we place value in things that will eventually decay rather than finding the beauty of life and holding on to it for as long as you can.
DeleteElizabeth "Rosy" Roberts
ReplyDelete"And when you're on the brink of extinction and want to live for a while longer, the laws governing life might conceivably become relevant." Ishmael, p. 100
The extended metaphor with the aircraft having never hit the floor was very insightful, not only to The Takers' attitude toward the environment, but toward man's attitude toward mistake and guilt in general. There is often a sense of arrogance in those who have not had issue before, which can become their greatest downfall as a member of society. To feel impervious is to absolve yourself of future responsibility that may come from that failure. You could even relate this to young people's attitudes toward condoms! Lack of foresight can accidentally blind, and eventually cripple, those who ignore the possibility of failure.
“’All the same, Bwana, what are we to do with this food if we don’t need it?’
ReplyDelete‘You save it! You save it to thwart the gods when they decide it’s your turn to go hungry. You save it so that when they send a drought, you can say, ‘Not me, goddamn it I’m not going hungry, and there’s nothing you can do about it, because my life is in my own hands now!’” – pg.227
As addressed in the work Ishmael, we as a people have developed the idea that any other way of living besides our own is innately wrong. This concept is something that has set us up to enemies of the world. This has set us up to be constantly at ends with the natural elements, trying to tame everything until it bends to our will. However, under the scope of what I learned from Ernst Becker’s Denial of Death our culture is being threatened by the mere presence of another and due to this we have sought to eradicate these people. My question is, is it possible for the generally public to embrace our mortality and accept that life before the dawn of our agricultural revolution was balanced with the natural world?
“What the gods provide is enough for your life as animals – I grant you that. But for your life as humans, you must provide. The gods are not going to do that… They give you what you need to live as animals but not what you need beyond that to live as humans.” (Quinn, pg. 226)
ReplyDeleteThis quotes just puts out plain and simple the perspective of our modern culture ideals, which date back to the beliefs that began to develop around the time of the agricultural revolution – that we are separate from, better than, smarter than, and more deserving than all other creatures and inhabitants of Earth. It is this idea that is destroying us. We have decided to disconnect ourselves from the natural world and gave ourselves the illusion that we can conquer and control the planet and our lives. This disconnection stems from fear of death, which we’ve talked about in class. We’ve lost our sense of interconnectedness and interdependence with our world. Quinn says “No one species shall make the life of the world its own… The world was not meant for one species.” This relates to The Magical Forest documentary and how no single species can survive on its own because diversity is essential to any and every ecosystem in order to sustain life. So as we continue to kill off our competitors and our food’s competitors, we are getting closer and closer to killing ourselves off. How do you suppose stopping the agricultural revolution and going back to hunter-gatherer lifestyles would affect our culture and population? Do you believe it is better to live like they did or that our system is better? Why?